並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E8%81%AF%E5%90%88%E9%96%8Bpod/%E8%AE%80%E9%A5%97%E6%99%82%E5%85%89-ep20%E5%90%B3%E5%AF%B6%E6%98%A5%E6%95%99%E4%BD%A0%E5%93%81%E5%91%B3%E5%9C%8B%E7%8E%8B%E6%B4%BE%E8%80%B6%E8%AA%95%E6%B0%B4%E6%9E%9C%E9%BA%B5%E5%8C%85-wINV_UgLBQd/