並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep13-%E5%8D%A1%E9%81%94%E7%A9%BA%E6%9C%8D%E5%93%A1%E4%BE%86%E5%88%86%E4%BA%AB-%E7%A9%BA%E5%A7%90%E8%96%AA%E6%B0%B4%E5%88%B0%E5%BA%95%E5%A4%9A%E5%B0%91%E5%A6%82%E4%BD%95%E8%A8%88%E7%AE%97-%E5%9F%B9%E8%A8%93%E5%A3%93%E5%8A%9B%E7%88%86%E5%A4%A7%E5%85%A9%E5%80%8B%E6%9C%88%E7%98%A6%E4%B8%83%E5%85%AC%E6%96%A4-%E6%89%93%E7%A0%B4%E4%BD%A0%E5%B0%8D%E7%A9%BA%E6%9C%8D%E5%93%A1%E7%9A%84%E6%B5%AA%E6%BC%AB%E5%B9%BB%E6%83%B3/id1543336182?i=1000515771010