並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-16-%E7%92%B0%E7%90%83%E6%99%B6%E4%BD%B5%E8%B3%BC%E6%A1%88%E8%83%8C%E5%BE%8C%E6%B2%92%E8%AA%AA%E7%9A%84%E4%BA%8B/id1531443831?i=1000503020503