並前往https://creatortalks.fm/episodes/s2ep05-%E3%80%8A%E9%A3%9B%E5%AE%A2%E5%BF%83%E6%B3%95%E3%80%8B%E9%AB%98%E7%9D%BF%E9%A8%B0%EF%BC%9A%E7%95%B6%E9%A3%AF%E5%BA%97%E7%A7%98%E5%AF%86%E5%AE%A2%EF%BC%9F%E8%A6%81%E5%85%88%E5%AD%B8%E6%9C%83/